Spot on. I don't know Beijer and haven't read him so I am speaking in generalities, but at basic level many leftists simply have trouble being on the same side of a cause (however clearly just that cause is) as the establishment West. This can lead them to some contradictory arguments and misplaced anger.
I read an offhand comment by Adam Tooze that might serve as sort of an ironic footnote to the arguments in this post. Tooze said there is an argument going on in NATO/the E.U. over whether aid to Ukraine should be in the form of grants or loans. with the Germans pushing for loans. It's not much talked about now, but Ukraine has been kind of an economic basket case for pretty much the entire post-Soviet period. If the the "loans" argument were to prevail at the scale of assistance that Ukraine needs, it likely would be reduced to something like debt peonage and at serious risk of becoming more or less the vassal state to the West that features in Russian propaganda. Hopefully all or almost all the aid to the country will be in the form of grants.
In my experience, a plurality of the people online who identify as "the anti-imperialist left" are those very BasedDuginDude69 fans and assorted tankies. Presumably Beijer has some other definition of what "anti-imperialist" means (I know I do!). But to just reference "_the_ anti-imperialist left" (with a generous side-helping of sneer) as if it is self-evidently an uncontroversial and united body, rather than a viciously contested battleground, is just plain silly
Not to swell your head, mate, but this “Carl Beijer”, whoever he/she/they is, sounds like dime-store independent ball to your MLB. They’re not even in your solar system, in terms of political/cultural/historical commentary. Sorry they put a stone in your shoe, but they just sound like waste-of-time campus soapboxers to me.
"I do not believe Ukraine is a mere vassal of the imperialist West. I believe Russia is a reactionary power and it is openly attempting to set itself up as the world leader of reaction, and to crush democrats everywhere both at home and abroad."
Even supposing that Ukraine was semi-democratic puppet of the West, I do not see why Russia is perceived as better somehow. There is obviously a lot of lying going on about this from non-Russians but there's every evidence that Ukrainians are being indiscriminately slaughtered by Russian forces on the orders of Russian command, full stop. I am of the general opinion that if you are deliberately slaughtering innocent civilians, then you are an asshole, regardless of your political beliefs, regardless of where your country is slotted into the ideological spectrum.
"Where Beijer’s missive turns again from rebuttal into smear is this rhetorical attempt to associate my writing with vulgar pro-Putin propaganda and the conclusion that I “hate the anti-imperialist left.”"
Well, this is the part where they usually say something about you (I) supporting the war in Iraq which I certainly did not. I was accused of being part of the Muslim-loving communist Left (news to me) and caught all kinds of hell for years. I didn't think it mattered: as ideological matter, the war was wrong, and as a practical matter it was stupid and wrong (Saddam Hussein had fuck-all to do with 9/11, morons!) and therefore bad for the United States. Because if we were indiscriminately slaughtering civilians (we were!) then we were the asshole country in the that situation.
They are welcome to hate the political ideology animating Ukraine or the US at the current time. I don't see how you then follow that up with the logical leap to 'and therefore, Russia should invade the Ukraine and slaughter a bunch of civilians for the perceived benefit of Russian plutarchy'. (It sounds an awful like the arguments that we were fighting 'the terrorists' in Afghanistan so therefore we should prove our anti-terrorist/anti-fundamentalist manliness by invading Iraq and killing a bunch of Not Terrorists.)
At any rate, I am sorry the 'socialist Left' has declared you anathema, John. You still look like the socialist left to ME*.
Marx and Engels always supported Ireland as well.
Spot on. I don't know Beijer and haven't read him so I am speaking in generalities, but at basic level many leftists simply have trouble being on the same side of a cause (however clearly just that cause is) as the establishment West. This can lead them to some contradictory arguments and misplaced anger.
I read an offhand comment by Adam Tooze that might serve as sort of an ironic footnote to the arguments in this post. Tooze said there is an argument going on in NATO/the E.U. over whether aid to Ukraine should be in the form of grants or loans. with the Germans pushing for loans. It's not much talked about now, but Ukraine has been kind of an economic basket case for pretty much the entire post-Soviet period. If the the "loans" argument were to prevail at the scale of assistance that Ukraine needs, it likely would be reduced to something like debt peonage and at serious risk of becoming more or less the vassal state to the West that features in Russian propaganda. Hopefully all or almost all the aid to the country will be in the form of grants.
In my experience, a plurality of the people online who identify as "the anti-imperialist left" are those very BasedDuginDude69 fans and assorted tankies. Presumably Beijer has some other definition of what "anti-imperialist" means (I know I do!). But to just reference "_the_ anti-imperialist left" (with a generous side-helping of sneer) as if it is self-evidently an uncontroversial and united body, rather than a viciously contested battleground, is just plain silly
Not to swell your head, mate, but this “Carl Beijer”, whoever he/she/they is, sounds like dime-store independent ball to your MLB. They’re not even in your solar system, in terms of political/cultural/historical commentary. Sorry they put a stone in your shoe, but they just sound like waste-of-time campus soapboxers to me.
"I do not believe Ukraine is a mere vassal of the imperialist West. I believe Russia is a reactionary power and it is openly attempting to set itself up as the world leader of reaction, and to crush democrats everywhere both at home and abroad."
Even supposing that Ukraine was semi-democratic puppet of the West, I do not see why Russia is perceived as better somehow. There is obviously a lot of lying going on about this from non-Russians but there's every evidence that Ukrainians are being indiscriminately slaughtered by Russian forces on the orders of Russian command, full stop. I am of the general opinion that if you are deliberately slaughtering innocent civilians, then you are an asshole, regardless of your political beliefs, regardless of where your country is slotted into the ideological spectrum.
"Where Beijer’s missive turns again from rebuttal into smear is this rhetorical attempt to associate my writing with vulgar pro-Putin propaganda and the conclusion that I “hate the anti-imperialist left.”"
Well, this is the part where they usually say something about you (I) supporting the war in Iraq which I certainly did not. I was accused of being part of the Muslim-loving communist Left (news to me) and caught all kinds of hell for years. I didn't think it mattered: as ideological matter, the war was wrong, and as a practical matter it was stupid and wrong (Saddam Hussein had fuck-all to do with 9/11, morons!) and therefore bad for the United States. Because if we were indiscriminately slaughtering civilians (we were!) then we were the asshole country in the that situation.
They are welcome to hate the political ideology animating Ukraine or the US at the current time. I don't see how you then follow that up with the logical leap to 'and therefore, Russia should invade the Ukraine and slaughter a bunch of civilians for the perceived benefit of Russian plutarchy'. (It sounds an awful like the arguments that we were fighting 'the terrorists' in Afghanistan so therefore we should prove our anti-terrorist/anti-fundamentalist manliness by invading Iraq and killing a bunch of Not Terrorists.)
At any rate, I am sorry the 'socialist Left' has declared you anathema, John. You still look like the socialist left to ME*.
elm
it's annoying to live through, but you'll survive
* but what do I know, right?
Par for the course in my experience.