Hey man, Twitter discourse gives me a lot to talk about with my teenager. All my friends with teens who don't talk to them are very envious about our non-stop debate fest. I try to tell them to go on Twitter and stop believing The Atlantic Magazine but they refuse to take this advice.
The teens still seem into sex as far as I can tell. They just find older people extremely annoying and aren't going to do anything the way we prefer it to be done. Nothing has really changed, in other words.
Do you think this is a specifically American issue, especially as it plays out re: movies and TV? The image of Alexander Skarsgard's ejaculating penis in INFINITY POOL had to be cut in the U.S. for the film to receive an R rating (and we have a second layer of puritanism due to the fact that NC-17/unrated films can't play beyond arthouses, although they're not censored by law), but it got a 15 rating in the UK and was released uncut in all but one province of Canada.
I wonder how much of the supposed generational divide around sex is a product of cherry-picking the most extreme takes from social media. Bizarrely prudish attitudes like "short women are minor-coded, and anyone attracted to them is basically a pedophile" do exist on Twitter, but so much Discourse around them acts as though all 19-year-olds think this way.
My favorite work in the genre of "moral panic about Americans not having enough sex" is definitely Joseph Lieberman's book about the Sabbath. No, I'm not kidding. Yes, he references the song Afternoon Delight. No, I would not recommend actually reading it. I've told you all you need to know.
"Rather, sexuality itself is an intrinsically problematic part of our existence: the site of elusive fantasies, fugitive desires, and profound anxieties."
Love this! Alain De Botton writes a little about this too.
I think this is fallout from the instant availability of pornography that we have now. In the 80s, people craved sex scenes in mainstream movies because it was the only place they were going to see it (there were adult movies but that was always a societal fringe). Hollywood saw an opportunity and bolted on the gratuitous nude scenes to cheesy synthesizer music — I always think of the scene in the first Terminator movie as the apotheosis of this trend. It was pretty rare to have an “artistically necessary” sex scene — The Crying Game is my best example of “artistically necessary”.
So now that we don’t need sex in movies in the same way, it’s almost shocking to see it, and it’s less commonly bolted on to mainstream releases. I think it’s probably good that people are having reactions to it now, since I think increasingly that’s the intent. I can’t come up with too many examples of nudity in movies I’ve seen recently, and I watch a lot of movies — Portrait of a Lady on Fire, but that was intended.
I think a lot of the people complaining go home and watch porn, so they’re filtering the intended confrontation through that experience. But I increasingly have no idea what today’s youth are into. I sort of assume all the “trad” stuff is just a meme people do for laughs, but that’s what I thought of QAnon too.
Agreed! Many people spend too much time worrying about what other people are doing. None of the articles I have read concerning the declining birth rate concern themselves with the cost of raising children and the use of commonly available contraceptives.
I read one article addressing the lack of low-cost child care and the impact that raising a family has on a woman's income and career. The article barely touched on the lack of equal sharing of household chores and child-rearing responsibilities. These are issues that should be discussed between partners before marriage or cohabitation.
I sometimes wonder if the concern over a declining birthrate is really camouflage for concern over "white" people being replaced by people with other skin colors. When viewed through the lens of climate change, the world's population appears too large, not too small.
If we are concerned about the birth rate, we should place a higher value on women and their societal role. Maybe paying attention to problems such as affordable child care, equal pay for equal work, and the high cost of education will positively affect the birth rate. Even if it doesn't, these severe problems need to be addressed.
I've fruitlessly engaged more than once on Twitter about the 'right' age gap in a relationship. I think the whole controversy is ridiculous, but I would, because my parents were nine years apart (outrageous!) and my mother was the elder of the pair (even worse!!) and basically robbed the cradle (well, my father was 24 and she was 33 when they married).
And as for sex? Three minutes of squelching noises, as Johnny Rotten once said.
Interesting that your only out-of-hand dismissal was of the term 'sex positive' (that horrible modern expression) which kind of seems like the most viable solution (if well worked societally) to the myriad, twining anxieties, inhibitions and compulsions you detail in this piece. Maybe it seems reductive to you? Most iterative transformational processes begin with a relatively simple objective/idea/ideal.
Thank you for interesting article! I believe that simply we might be advancing from sexual behavior. Once it was fun activity for humans, now we might find fun many more things. Even sex in films aren’t so much fun as it was once. I’m worried for young generations, because it might impact them more. Another issue that is at risk is faithfulness in young generations. Technology is changing this. People are learning to appreciate loneliness too. I watched recently Lady Chatterley’s Lover, film full of erotism & sex and sadly it didn’t suprise me that much. Then I saw the film “ you people” which doesn’t have sex scenes, but still it didn’t diminish my appreciation for the film.
Hey man, Twitter discourse gives me a lot to talk about with my teenager. All my friends with teens who don't talk to them are very envious about our non-stop debate fest. I try to tell them to go on Twitter and stop believing The Atlantic Magazine but they refuse to take this advice.
The teens still seem into sex as far as I can tell. They just find older people extremely annoying and aren't going to do anything the way we prefer it to be done. Nothing has really changed, in other words.
>> "Well, let’s consult some experts in these matters: a couple of noted French perverts"
Lol
this is your best title yet...
Do you think this is a specifically American issue, especially as it plays out re: movies and TV? The image of Alexander Skarsgard's ejaculating penis in INFINITY POOL had to be cut in the U.S. for the film to receive an R rating (and we have a second layer of puritanism due to the fact that NC-17/unrated films can't play beyond arthouses, although they're not censored by law), but it got a 15 rating in the UK and was released uncut in all but one province of Canada.
I wonder how much of the supposed generational divide around sex is a product of cherry-picking the most extreme takes from social media. Bizarrely prudish attitudes like "short women are minor-coded, and anyone attracted to them is basically a pedophile" do exist on Twitter, but so much Discourse around them acts as though all 19-year-olds think this way.
My favorite work in the genre of "moral panic about Americans not having enough sex" is definitely Joseph Lieberman's book about the Sabbath. No, I'm not kidding. Yes, he references the song Afternoon Delight. No, I would not recommend actually reading it. I've told you all you need to know.
"Rather, sexuality itself is an intrinsically problematic part of our existence: the site of elusive fantasies, fugitive desires, and profound anxieties."
Love this! Alain De Botton writes a little about this too.
I think this is fallout from the instant availability of pornography that we have now. In the 80s, people craved sex scenes in mainstream movies because it was the only place they were going to see it (there were adult movies but that was always a societal fringe). Hollywood saw an opportunity and bolted on the gratuitous nude scenes to cheesy synthesizer music — I always think of the scene in the first Terminator movie as the apotheosis of this trend. It was pretty rare to have an “artistically necessary” sex scene — The Crying Game is my best example of “artistically necessary”.
So now that we don’t need sex in movies in the same way, it’s almost shocking to see it, and it’s less commonly bolted on to mainstream releases. I think it’s probably good that people are having reactions to it now, since I think increasingly that’s the intent. I can’t come up with too many examples of nudity in movies I’ve seen recently, and I watch a lot of movies — Portrait of a Lady on Fire, but that was intended.
I think a lot of the people complaining go home and watch porn, so they’re filtering the intended confrontation through that experience. But I increasingly have no idea what today’s youth are into. I sort of assume all the “trad” stuff is just a meme people do for laughs, but that’s what I thought of QAnon too.
And a happy VD to you, too!
I like the pun in the title -- at my age there's a lot more withering than come-hithering.
Agreed! Many people spend too much time worrying about what other people are doing. None of the articles I have read concerning the declining birth rate concern themselves with the cost of raising children and the use of commonly available contraceptives.
I read one article addressing the lack of low-cost child care and the impact that raising a family has on a woman's income and career. The article barely touched on the lack of equal sharing of household chores and child-rearing responsibilities. These are issues that should be discussed between partners before marriage or cohabitation.
I sometimes wonder if the concern over a declining birthrate is really camouflage for concern over "white" people being replaced by people with other skin colors. When viewed through the lens of climate change, the world's population appears too large, not too small.
If we are concerned about the birth rate, we should place a higher value on women and their societal role. Maybe paying attention to problems such as affordable child care, equal pay for equal work, and the high cost of education will positively affect the birth rate. Even if it doesn't, these severe problems need to be addressed.
I've fruitlessly engaged more than once on Twitter about the 'right' age gap in a relationship. I think the whole controversy is ridiculous, but I would, because my parents were nine years apart (outrageous!) and my mother was the elder of the pair (even worse!!) and basically robbed the cradle (well, my father was 24 and she was 33 when they married).
And as for sex? Three minutes of squelching noises, as Johnny Rotten once said.
Interesting that your only out-of-hand dismissal was of the term 'sex positive' (that horrible modern expression) which kind of seems like the most viable solution (if well worked societally) to the myriad, twining anxieties, inhibitions and compulsions you detail in this piece. Maybe it seems reductive to you? Most iterative transformational processes begin with a relatively simple objective/idea/ideal.
Thank you for interesting article! I believe that simply we might be advancing from sexual behavior. Once it was fun activity for humans, now we might find fun many more things. Even sex in films aren’t so much fun as it was once. I’m worried for young generations, because it might impact them more. Another issue that is at risk is faithfulness in young generations. Technology is changing this. People are learning to appreciate loneliness too. I watched recently Lady Chatterley’s Lover, film full of erotism & sex and sadly it didn’t suprise me that much. Then I saw the film “ you people” which doesn’t have sex scenes, but still it didn’t diminish my appreciation for the film.